Climate policy lobbyist, Natalie Mebane, discusses the role of people-power in shifting political will for a fossil fuel-free future. (Say that 5 times fast!)
Climate policy lobbyist, Natalie Mebane, discusses the role of people-power in shifting political will for a fossil fuel-free future. (Say that 5 times fast!)
Racial Disparities & Climate Change:
https://psci.princeton.edu/tips/2020/8/15/racial-disparities-and-climate-change
The Climate Gap:
https://dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/242/docs/ClimateGapReport_full_report_web.pdf
Natalie Mebane is the Associate Director of United States Policy at 350.org
1 Point 5: A Kids Climate Justice Podcast
S1EP11, What Would a Fossil Fuel Free Future Look Like?
[INTRODUCTION]
Olivia: Hi there and welcome back to 1 Point 5: A Kids Podcast About Climate Justice! I’m Olivia Greenspan.
Zanagee: And I’m Zanagee Artis.
Olivia: And we believe that kids like you deserve a livable future.
1 Point 5 is a show where we explore the challenges facing our planet with scientists, youth activists, and other environmental leaders who have experienced the realities of the climate crisis firsthand.
Zanagee: We’re so excited to be joined today by Natalie Mebane. Natalie is a climate policy expert and a lobbyist who is pushing for climate justice in our laws everyday. A lobbyist is someone who aims to influence people in government. And she does that in all of her work in advocating for policy for climate justice. And she’s also a mentor to youth in the climate movement and a dear friend of mine.
Olivia: Yes. I loved this conversation with Natalie because it covered some amazing topics. Like what renewable energy is some of the challenges standing in our way to a fossil fuel free future.
Say that five times fast fossil fuel free future. And what role renewable energy plays in the path toward climate justice.
Zanagee: This conversation was…wait for it…fire. This conversation was fire. Let’s jump in.
[MEET THE GUEST]
Natalie: Sure. So I'm Natalie Mebane. I am from, uh, essentially both Washington DC and silver spring, Maryland. Um, and yeah, I'm just happy to be here and happy to be a guest on the show today.
Zanagee: And how long have you been involved in the climate movement?
Natalie: Oh, I would say. I, I don't think it was really a movement back then, but I can say the first time I heard of climate change and this was when we were still calling it global warming as the common title was in 1990, I was watching Nickelodeon and they taught us about global warming.
And I was like, oh no, what is this thing? And everyone else seemed to be fine. Like everyone else was, seemed to be kind of chill about it. Um, and I was like, this is a problem.
Zanagee: Yeah. And, and so I'm going to keep on that, that train and actually jump in, uh, on that word renewable. Uh, and so what, what does it mean for something to be renewable and what is this renewable energy that's so different than the fossil fuels that we use right now.
Natalie: The main thing to remember when looking at an energy source and seeing like, is it renewable? Is this something that just naturally regenerates on its own? So sunlight, we know that it's going to get dark at a certain time and we know in a few hours. Predictable pretty routine. Um, no one's wondering is the sun arise tomorrow?
Same thing with wind. Now, some people might say, yeah, wind, but sometimes it's windy, sometimes it's not, but there are places that are usually always windy, sustained winds. And so, you know, wind energy windmills are built in places with a sustained amount of wind that wind blowing that it's reliable and routine.
Um, and geothermal, we don't have to get into all of that, the technical parts of how it works, but the earth if you drill deep enough, it's a constant temperature, typically in the mid fifties that exists in the soil. And so you can actually use that temperature that is pretty consistent and use it to both heat homes in the winter and cool homes in the summer.
Um, you can get electricity from the actual it's like the temperature variations in terms of producing, um, geothermal with the geothermal heat pumps. And so there's lots of things that you can do. Because they're not really going to change. Um, one thing to watch out for is energy sources like nuclear, not renewable and not clean.
Um, you don't call it toxic waste for nothing. So if anybody wants to say renewable is clean, I will volunteer them to store all the nuclear waste in America that they never put in Yucca mountain. Um, on top of that, it's a uranium is mine. Which is a finite mineral finite resource, a finite element, and you have to mine it and there are certain places that have it in certain places that don't, it's not a renewable resource and it certainly is not clean.
And so I think what we're pushing for and what I want is only energy running our economy that is a hundred percent clean and a hundred percent renewable. And so that it's safe for everybody to use, and it doesn't put one community in a terrible spot that is going to be polluted continuously where there's, there should be no sacrifice zones of communities when it comes to energy justice.
Olivia: Awesome. Okay. So Natalie, you've mentioned a few types of fossil fuels that contribute to climate change, like coal, like oil, like gas. And you've mentioned a few types of renewable clean and safe energy that don't contribute to climate change like solar, like when, like geothermal.
Geo means earth and thermal. It means heat. So geothermal energy uses heat from within the earth to generate electrical. We can use geothermal energy to power things like our homes and because geothermal energy never stops. It's a renewable energy source, just like solar or like wind.
It seems like this is a no brainer. Let's just make the switch. Why, why is it challenging to switch from our fossil fuel based world to our, uh, goal of our renewable world? What challenges are standing in our way?
Natalie: So the real challenge of switching is not the lack of technology is not the lack of ability. It's the lack of will. It's the lack of will from governments around the world. It's the lack of will from everyday citizens who have become accustomed to the way things are, and don't see the reasons why anything should change.
It's because of a corporate greed overall. It's still making certain individuals lots and lots of money. And so if you are saying, we would like to stop you from making that money in order to save every life on planet earth, they're just like, no. Why would I ever stop doing that? Yes, it's killing people. Yes. It will eventually reach me. But in the meantime, I'm making billions, why should I switch?
And so the real reason why we haven't switched off of fossil fuels is mainly corporate greed. The fact that if it's still profitable, even in the last years of it being profitable to kill the planet, Essentially capitalism will push you to continue killing the planet until you can't kill it anymore.
And that is disappointing and disheartening because we know what we need to do. There's not a matter of do we know the science? Um, and do we have the ability to switch? We absolutely do. It's a matter of the will. And so for me, you know, my focus is, um, within my career is gathering the political will. The political will of people to actually take charge of their democracies, if they have a democracy as their government, to actually influence it, to, you know, shape it in the, in the direction that they want it to be. And so overall, if we had the political will, which comes from the people because people vote money does not vote, you can pour billion dollars into a race. It doesn't guarantee you more votes.
So if people, everyday human beings take responsibility for the home that they have and choose to have a better life and a better future, then we can easily switch off of fossil fuels in the next few years, um, and that's yet to be determined. Is there enough political will, and are the people that are living and breathing and voting every day willing to actually vote and support and push for what's necessary.
Olivia: Yes. You’re definitely right, Natalie, that people can demand more for a livable future. We’re looking forward to learning more about how your work in the movement has continued to grow that political willingness for change. More when we return after this quick break.
[BREAK]
Olivia: Welcome back to One Point Five, a Kids Podcast About Climate Justice. Let’s return to our conversation with climate policy expert Natalie Mebane.
Olivia: What I love about what you're speaking to is you're, you're highlighting the importance of the social movement. Uh, aspect of achieving a world that I don't know is free of fossil fuels a world where climate change doesn't exist or, uh, isn't seriously altering, uh, the very fabric of our society. Um, and that's something that we really try to do in the, in the children's book, like getaway from recycling, like I think, um, people can get confused between the types of individual actions that are most impactful.
And you're basically saying, or what I hear you say you can correct me, is that the most important individual action anyone can take is political. It's using your voice and your voting power to say “I demand a change.”
Natalie: Absolutely. I think that. To also recycle. It's great to also drive an electric vehicle, if you have one, that's great to be conscious of what you're doing, but that alone is not going to save us because at this point, the scale of the problem is bigger than any individual. And also we're all trapped in the same system. It's not your fault that you're driving a gas powered car. You know, the electric cars came out in the seventies and, uh, oil and gas and coal companies buried them as soon as possible in the eighties. And now we'd never heard from them again. Right. It's only now becoming chic and cool again, like electric cars. They're neat. Yeah. They were also need over 40 years ago, you know, they were, they were kind of cool back then, too.
Unfortunately we didn't make the necessary investments before I was even born. There's no reason I shouldn't have been born into being driven around as a baby in electric car. Um, and there's no, that's not my parents' fault and it's not my fault. And so I think the way to look at it as not to have essentially a victim blame, because we are still the victims of this fossil fuel economy, but it's more so of, okay, we are no longer allowing that economy to continue and we're going to use our voice as the most important thing that we can do and actually change our political landscape no matter where you're located and no matter what country you're in.
Olivia: Thank you. Great. So you've just done something really perfect, which is highlighted how a world without fossil fuels. Uh, intersects with topics that we've at this point, um, already speak to about plus speak about, already talked about, uh, on the podcast, which is environmental racism, which we spoke to our friend, Kevin Patel about, you know, um,
Natalie: You spoke to Kevin. Excellent, great, great guy.
Olivia: Yes. And, uh, climate justice, which we've also talked about. So can you, can you spend a little more time, Natalie highlighting the intersection between. Renewable energy and climate justice.
Natalie: Well, I think renewable energy it's sort of the path forward that we have to take in order to reach to climate justice.
So justice is the hardest thing, because it's not just about the environment. It's about, it's about things that were in place way before. Problem racism was a problem before climate change. Colonialism was a problem before climate change. None of these problems are new. And so it's not that those things would not continue. They very well could.
Um, it's more so that at least when it comes to the climate. The livable future of this whole world, it's not dependent on whether we can, um, have a stable, a stable planet. It is what determines when the rains fall with climate is what if you live in a desert or not, or whether you live in a rain forest.
And if you think about planting food, climate determines whether that food will grow or not. And that determines whether we will have food to eat or not, or water to drink, um, you know, climate determines our glaciers and things like that, which are freshwater rivers across the world.
And so overall, I would say that, in terms of climate justice, it's recognizing the fact that everyone is affected by climate change, but not equally, we're not all affected the same and we cannot pretend like we are. And I think that's the big difference is that climate change is something that you cannot ignore from the justice lens because it creates so much inequality.
And it amplifies inequality that already existed.
Olivia: Perfect. Thank you.
Zanagee: Alright, that concludes our conversation with climate policy expert Natalie Mebane! This episode was a reminder that we need to keep up the pressure! Everyone has a part to play, and I’m grateful to have organized with Natalie for the past several years to get more people just like you, listener, involved in the climate movement. With that said, it’s time for the…
[CLIMATE JUSTICE GAME SHOW]
Olivia: Okay Zanagee, question 1: What is renewable energy?
Zanagee: Awesome, that’s an easy one, first one. Renewable energy refers to energy sources that naturally regenerate on their own, like sun, wind, and geothermal. So they are renewable and they can be used forever.
Olivia: Yes, that’s correct!
Zanagee: Awesome. Okay Olivia, question 2: What challenges are standing in our way to a fossil-fuel-free future?
Olivia: Yes, this is so such an important question. And I'm really glad that we got to talk about this with Natalie. Um, because right. It seems so obvious. Okay. Fossil fuels are causing climate change and we have these other options. Why don't we just do it? Well, Natalie has been working in this space for a long time.
And she cited a few challenges that are standing in our way of a fossil fuel free future. First fossil fuels power, almost everything we use, and many people are just comfortable with the current way of life. Secondly, fossil fuels are very profitable and when something makes someone a lot of money, those profiting will generally do everything in their power to keep making them.
And third, and Natalie really emphasized this point in particular, historically, governments have only made huge changes and fixing climate change will definitely require a lot of huge changes when tons of everyday people demand that change from their government. And as of right now, Natalie, doesn't see enough of that demand from everyday people to create that fossil fuel free future that we all know.
Zanagee: Um, yeah, very well said, correct, Olivia. And listeners, if you want to demand a fossil fuel free future, you can let your elected officials know and you can call them and tell them any time that you want that fossil fuel free future that we've been talking about.
Olivia: Absolutely. Okay, third and final question. Zanagee, what role does renewable energy have on the path toward climate justice?
Zanagee: Yeah, it has a huge role in our path toward climate justice. Renewable energy, wind solar and geothermal are the number one priority to move us off of fossil fuels. Since climate change amplifies inequality that already exists, renewable energy is the path forward we have to take to reach climate justice.
And as we know from previous conversations, like with our friend, Kevin J. Patel in episode five, living near fossil fuel extraction in power plants can cause a host of health issues like asthma. For example, African-Americans have a 36% higher rate of asthma incidents and they're three times more likely to die or visit the emergency room from asthma related complications than non-Hispanic whites.
And we'll have a link to this study in our show notes, if you want to review that further, but we know that by investing in renewable energy, we are one step closer to a more just society because this renewable energy will replace this pollution. Fossil fuel energy that we use today.
Olivia: Absolutely. That’s correct. And with that, that concludes today’s episode of the climate justice game show. Thank you as always for playing along!
[CLOSING]
Zanagee: Thank you, listeners, for joining us today. And thanks to Natalie Mebane for sharing her expertise on climate policy and renewable energy.
1 Point 5 is written by me, Zanagee Artis
Olivia: and me, Olivia Greenspan.
Zanagee: Our show is edited and produced by Cat Petru with help from Matthew Winner and the team at Sound On Studios. Our executive producer is Jelani Memory. And this show was brought to you by A Kids Podcast About.
Olivia: This show is inspired by our book, A Kids Book About Climate Change, and the millions of young people around the world fighting for their right to a livable future.
Zanagee: You can write to us at listen@akidspodcastabout.com. And check out other podcasts made for kids just like you by visiting akidsco.com.